• NeilBrü@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      I’m an American who moved to the Netherlands in July of '22. I spend a lot of time going back and forth. My then fiancé, now my wife, was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis during the pandemic. Given the obvious price difference for medication to treat the disease, I decided to move in with her instead of her coming to the US.

      I find it disheartening to see what the rest of the world thinks about Americans up close. I am competently multilingual enough to hold conversations. I have to admit now that I understand why other natively born Americans pretend that they’re from Canada outside of the U.S.

      Despite my embarrassment about the body politic and discourse from my country, I find that the the same authoritarian, isolationist, and anti-intellectual mind-viruses that permeate through society in the United States (especially in rural communities) have a beachhead here in Western Europe. Either that or they’ve always been here to begin with. To me, the difference is that the scale is much smaller.

      • Scott_of_the_Arctic@lemmy.world
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        Yeah, for sure. The Russians have been busy in all countries. The reason things got out of hand in the states is because you have a two party system. You only need to control a few people to control enough to take over the country.

        That being said, Americans need to take a page out of the French play book at this point. If you try to make a Frenchman work an extra half hour a week, Paris will burn. That’s the level of outrage you need here. Nothing short of that will be effective. Don’t protest, riot! A few people hanging about with plakards isn’t going to cut it when the government is deciding which TV shows they’ll allow, threatening politicians, protecting pedophiles, killing witnesses in federal custody, detaining people without cause, deporting/imprisoning people without trial, and deploying combat troops against peaceful protesters.

        I’d like to point out that all this shit is not normal and Americans need to understand how deeply fucked up the situation is. From where I’m standing I’m not sure most of them do. Yeah it’s regrettable that fascism took hold in the states despite the rest of the world screaming at them to stop, but what’s really alarming is that they’re just kinda going along with it.

        • fishy@lemmy.today
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          As a leftist American, you’re right. There’s a simply incredible amount of the population who refuse to participate in politics at all, then another huge swathe who gets all their news from social media or a single source which never gives the whole picture. I’ve protested, I’ve written my leadership, I’ve changed family and friends to the side of sanity but it feels like there’s just no winning like this. I’m ready for a general strike, to stop paying federal taxes but it’s all self harming if done alone. Our leaders have failed us basically across the board and I’m hoping that they’ve fucked up enough in the eyes of the general public so there’s a correction and we can get this country far more socialized and kick corporations off welfare.

        • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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          Too many Americans are eager to lick the boot. “We have to work (for free) this weekend to get this feature out [for the deadline the owner made up and customers don’t care about]” was something my old team unironically said to me more than once

      • kent_eh@lemmy.ca
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        I find that the the same authoritarian, isolationist, and anti-intellectual mind-viruses that permeate through society in the United States (especially in rural communities) have a beachhead here in Western Europe

        America’s worst export.

        • wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works
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          4 hours ago

          Bold to claim we had to export it. This is like someone saying “yeah, we’ve got black mold, but it obviously came from our neighbours, and has nothing to do with the raw sewage we’ve left in the basement for the last eighty years!”

          Literally none of those things first gained traction in the Americas. As a US citizen, I think we need to be doing a general strike with riots in the streets and shutting down interstate trade with our bodies marching on the highways.

          But you need to see to your own houses, because while the mold is running wild over here, it didn’t start with us.

    • butwhyishischinabook@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Just FYI, you in Europe should spend more time learning how not to freak out the moment you invite a relatively small amount of Muslim people of color to live among you as refugees and start pushing boats back into the sea to drown. We watch your society start to break apart the moment it drifts even a tiny bit away from white ethnostates. Hungary and Poland fell before the US.

      Don’t get me wrong, we’re a flaming dumpster fire right now, but it gets very tired very quickly listening to you people look down your noses at the US like your shit doesn’t stink as you teeter to and from the brink of far right parties taking power every 3 years on a platform of “no Muslims in Country X.” You’re not wrong, but glass houses my guy. You judge us, but the rest of the world judges us both.

      • Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        And how’s Europe and such doing on gay rights, women’s rights, diversity, privacy rights, health science, climate science, wealth equality, economic policy, territorial threats…

        One comparable out of many doesn’t make a glass house.

        • Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world
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          I think the point was that the far right is close to winning in Europe. If they do, you can kiss all those things goodbye, just like us.

        • vxx@lemmy.world
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          I mean, it isnt as bad as in the US yet, but were definitely on our way. Just listen to the garbage that sounds exactly like maga from people around you.

          It feels like everyone is making hate and fear their new identity, and the minorities get blamed.

        • NeilBrü@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          Where do you think the authoritarian, anti-intellectual, isolationist, puritanical Christian nationalism found in the U.S. historically began?

          • Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world
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            Where are concentration camps happening already?

            Where is a popular fascist already in power?

            Fucking Americans playing whataboutism when they’re a mile down the road already.

            • NeilBrü@lemmy.world
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              It’s not “whataboutism”. It’s about understanding historical context and threads that tie history and geopolitics across time and oceans.

              Yes, I’m an American and it’s bad back home. Arguably worse than ever before. And the American flavor of conservative techno-feudalism certainly has its own unique stench. We have much to fight, and we suck at it (currently).

              However, I live in the Netherlands currently, since July of 2022, and not exactly by choice. My (Dutch) then-fiance-now-wife got an incurable diagnosis during the pandemic, preventing her from moving to the U.S. But before, I’ve been all over Europe. I’ve read plenty of “Western Civilization” history textbooks in high school and university as well. I see all of the right-wing conservative macho bullshit here in supposedly “liberal Northwest Europe” that I see emanating from MAGA pussies back home. In the Netherlands, that would be the BBB and the PVV.

              The mentality I’m referring to is from here. In Europe. EVERYthing in modern US conservative talking points can trace its roots right back to puritanical European Christian white supremacist monarchism/fascism/authoritarianism, “WE’RE-IN-CHARGE-FOREVER-BECAUSE-WE’RE-‘CIVILIZED’”-ism.

              “God, Gold, and Glory” was a thing long before U.S was. The American flavor of it has its roots here, so, please, as an American not of European descent, cut the fucking bullshit. Don’t throw stones from your supposedly manicured glass houses. Or, if I’m wrong, invite some Roma people or economic migrants from <insertFormerColonialTerritoryHere> into your home, with all of that holier-than-thou “love” in your heart.

              • wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works
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                Thank you for your posts in this thread. Your work correcting these people is not unnoticed. They’ve got 300-year-old raw sewage in their basement, see their neighbour’s house has a black mold problem, and then when they find specks of mold in their kitchen, they scream that the neighbours have brought the plague. If they fail to clean their kitchen for one week, the rot will seep in to a degree that their neighbour’s house could never achieve, and it is only by the cleaning habits of a small minority of their household that the house remains livable, but the person screaming is too preoccupied with the spectacle next door to actually clean house. What, do they think that the person next door isn’t trying to clean? Next door is a much bigger house, and the sewage has started leaking through the now-septic foundations from the burst pipe in the screamer’s basement.

        • butwhyishischinabook@lemmy.world
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          Well that depends, how about you go ask TURF Island or Hungary or most of literally everything south or east of Germany. If you’re gonna pretend France and Germany are all of Europe then you should at least be comparing to like, idk, just NYC and CA or something. Again, reeeeeeeal glass heavy house over there.

          https://rainbowmap.ilga-europe.org/

          • Allemaniac@lemmy.world
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            I agree with you, trying to compare a single country to a union of countries, where every entity has their own interests and culture is kinda useless. Eastern europe has a lot of catching up to do, but I don’t get how we devolved into fighting under a video of trump using AI to post a video discrediting former president Obama by framing him as a criminal. We all just want a world worth living in, where everybody has the same chances. We ought to fight TOGETHER against these race-ideology idiots spewing hate and fake news

        • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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          exactly! it’s just a bunch of brown people we have to abandon to maintain our perfect society. I mean they’re barely “people”.

          /s

    • But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
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      I think what’s pissing me off about the US most right now, is even through the dumpster fire and their idiotic elected leader, Americans are STILL moraizing, looking down on others and being the world police

      • NeilBrü@lemmy.world
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        For the record, we average citizens don’t want to be the “world police”. This is what President Eisenhower was referring to as the “Military Industrial Complex”.

        Starting in  the  1980s,  the  United  States,  which  insisted  on  strict  terms  for  the  re-payment of  Third  World  debt,  itself  accrued  debts  that  easily  dwarfed those  of  the  entire  Third  World  combined — mainly  fueled  by  military spending.  The  U.S.  foreign  debt,  though,  takes  the  form  of  treasury bonds  held  by  institutional  investors  in  countries  (Germany,  Japan, South  Korea,  Taiwan,  Thailand,  the  Gulf  States)  that  are  in  most  cases, effectively,  U.S.  military  protectorates,  most  covered  in  U.S.  bases  full of  arms  and  equipment  paid  for  with  that  very  deficit  spending.

        This has  changed  a  little  now  that  China  has  gotten  in  on  the  game  (China is  a  special  case,  for  reasons  that  will  be  explained  later),  but  not  very much — even  China  finds  that  the  fact  it  holds  so  many  U.S.  treasury bonds  makes  it  to  some  degree  beholden  to  U.S.  interests,  rather  than the  other  way  around.

        So  what  is  the  status  of  all  this  money  continually  being  funneled into  the  U.S.  treasury?  Are  these  loans?  Or is it tribute? In the past, military  powers  that  maintained  hundreds  of  military  bases  outside their  own  home  territory  were  ordinarily  referred  to  as  “empires,”  and empires  regularly  demanded  tribute  from  subject  peoples. The  U.S. government,  of  course,  insists  that  it  is  not  an  empire — but  one  could easily  make  a  case  that  the  only  reason  it  insists  on  treating  these  payments as  “loans”  and  not  as  “tribute”  is  precisely  to  deny  the  reality of  what’s  going  on.

        • Except from the Beginning of David Graeber’s Debt: The First 5,000 Years
        • kent_eh@lemmy.ca
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          Nobody else appointed the US as “world police”.

          It’s a role that they gleefully took on so they could go around telling others what to do.

        • But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
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          The young left has become the world moral police and it has nothing to do with the military, right wing uses the military. The young left is just using shit slinging. But Americans need to get to the back of the line when it comes to moralizing or leading global issues, the rest of the world doesn’t want to hear it from Americans

          • NeilBrü@lemmy.world
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            I don’t understand anything you just typed. Who’s “young left”? The global “young left”? You think only the “right wing” uses the military?

            And who should be leading global issues? Europeans? Chinese? Russians? Indians? G8? G20? UN? Who?

            Or is it that Americans are the only ones who can’t or shouldn’t be allowed to “lead” or “moralize”?

            Genuinely confused.

            • But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world
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              Yes, Americans need to shut up, we don’t wanna hear it, fix your damn country before you start criticizing others. You only cheapen a movement by leading out and infecting it with your toxicity.

              It’s hard to explain who the “left” is in the US right now because you all think the left means just you and your group of friends. You are all punching left and fighting each other while the right is united and you guys let them win. You’re all so weird and you can’t see it from the inside, but the rest of us around the world don’t want to hear your opinion anymore

              • NeilBrü@lemmy.world
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                Opinion on what? Your country? The world? Geopolitics? What Americans are moralizing about anything to you? And about what? The young left? Who is the American version of Greta Thunberg?

                I moved to the Netherlands from the US in '22 out of necessity due to my Dutch wife’s medical diagnosis. I’m not here for the fun of it. Furthermore, I’ve been to 12 countries in total and I speak four languages, 2 of them fluently.

                I’ve noticed something.

                Every rural shit-heel out here in the Dutch countryside complaining about Moroccans and Turks sounds like a typical MAGA pussy to me. This breed of mouth breather has an iteration specific to every country I’ve been in. I’m sure I’ll find versions in Japan, China, Kyrgyzstan, Angola, Paraguay, and everywhere else someone says “god damned <insertEthnicSlurHere>, breathing up all our air.”

                So don’t preach to me how fucking “enlightened” the rest of the world is when the conservative puritanical nationalism that is in every conservative talking point globally got its birth right here in this part of the fucking world (Europe) before the United States even existed.

                I don’t know where you’re from but this tide of authoritarianism is global. The United States is a dumpster fire politically. But that fire did not start there and it’s clearly not the only trash receptacle burning right now.